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unprintedOffline
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:24    Post subject: 'Optimal' collection of wall tiles Reply with quote

Imagine for a second that no wall tiles have been collected, and I am on square 10 and my opponent is on square 14.

I score 2+6 points.

I think what the site currently does is say '10+2 = 12, move to 12, collect the wall tile, 12+6 = 18, move to 18'.

I think the real optimal move is '10+6 = 16, move to 16, collect the wall tile, 16+2 = 18, move to 18' because that will mean my opponent cannot collect the tile on 16/17 and I still get one wall tile. (It'll probably be a different sort, but I cannot know beforehand which one of the two is 'better'.)

Clearly this isn't going to happen very often - it only happens when you are overtaking the other player for a start - but I think I've seen it once already...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 19:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct, we do not take into account the options of the opponent. That would be to difficult!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

You already count the number of wall tiles the various possibilities pick up, don't you?

If you value tiles behind the opponent as 1 and those ahead of them as 1.1 (or 10 and 11 if you're integer-only) then it'll sort itself out by slightly preferring ones that the opponent could have picked up.
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bramOffline
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 13:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

too complex, also I discussed this with the author and he agrees on our implementation.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the algorithm used and how does it choose between moves that win the same number of wall tiles?

I have just had the situation of being on 31 and scoring 1 + 8 points.

What I expected (and wanted) to happen was 31 -> 32 (get tile) -> 40. What actually happened was 31 -> 39 (get tile) -> 40, i.e. it went for the tile furthest away.

It matters (this time) because when the other player is behind you, you'd like them to be as far away from tiles as possible...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does not choose.
1. It picks the most tiles you can
2. If there are multiple options for the same amount of tiles it's random.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 17:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that's the best way it could be done, but I also don't think you're going to change it Smile even though again it'd be simple to do better moves by not counting all wall tiles as equal.

The ideal would be to let the players pick where they (and their opponent) land and if they pick a less than optimal set of moves, tough.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the way the author of this game agreed on how we did this.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 18:49    Post subject: Bug in collection of wall tiles Reply with quote

The affected move is here: http://www.yourturnmyturn.com/carcassonne/show.php?gamenumber=1491225&turnnumber=49

me: 37 points
opponent: 40 points
wall tiles available: [38-39], [42-43]

My opponent make a move: scores +2, +12 and make me score +2, +4.
I expected me to take [38-39] and him [42-43], instead I got nothing and the [38-39] tile remained untaken.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 20:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what's supposed to happen Smile

It's their move, so they get to pick in what order both of you take your individual scores. They've got a tile and, by making you have your 4 first, ensured that you don't get any.

It's the best move in their position.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

unprinted wrote:
That's what's supposed to happen Smile

It's their move, so they get to pick in what order both of you take your individual scores. They've got a tile and, by making you have your 4 first, ensured that you don't get any.

It's the best move in their position.


Ok, are you saying that the active player chooses the order also for the opponent scores, right?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuiop wrote:
unprinted wrote:
That's what's supposed to happen Smile

It's their move, so they get to pick in what order both of you take your individual scores. They've got a tile and, by making you have your 4 first, ensured that you don't get any.

It's the best move in their position.


Ok, are you saying that the active player chooses the order also for the opponent scores, right?


It's done automatically and for the active player the best option is chosen and for the inactive the worst option.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 14:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuiop wrote:
Ok, are you saying that the active player chooses the order also for the opponent scores, right?


See p5 of the rules linked to at http://www.yourturnmyturn.com/rules/carcassonne-the-castle.php

"When taking a wall tile, the following is important:

When the placement of a castle tile results in more than one completed feature, the player placing the tile scores his completed features first. If there are more than one to score for him or his opponent, the placing player decides the order."
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 15:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks to both of you
unprintend, see you in game Very Happy
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