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Croscombe
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:21    Post subject: TPR Backgammon Victory margin? Reply with quote

Although I do not understand the omission of the 2 to 64 Doubling Dice on this site, a vital component of real Backgammon, I have been presuming that 2 resounding victories out of 4 against an opponent would affect the TPR in the latter stages. I have won 2 games by Gammon. (I.E. My opponent has no stones out before I clear all of mine.) It looks likely that I will lose the other 2 games with a single stone in one game and 8 left in the other. Friends have told me a simple victory count is the deciding factor. Is this the system you use?
My opponents TPR was higher at the beginning. They have not played any moves in the other 2 games during several sessions when we were both active. Friends say, this indicates they have won them. One friend thinks they gain some advantage in TPR score by not making the game terminating moves, as I have with my 2 x Gammon games. Is that true? Should I have held back and left those 2 games unfinished to gain an advantage? Is there any positive adjustment in TPR for winning games by Gammon?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no effect on TPR or any ratings based on the value of the victory. Normal games, Gammons and Backgammons are all wins and YTMT has no distinction between the three. Essentially, all backgammon games on YTMT are 1-point matches. Still, it is fun to play on after a game is decided to determine whether a Gammon or Backgammon can be acheived. I only resign when the value of a victory is beyond doubt. Others might resign after a game is decided for one player or the other without regard to the value of the win.

To sum up: on YTMT, a win is a win.
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Croscombe
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:49    Post subject: Thanks for reply Reply with quote

If thats the odd way it is dealt with, so be it. It just leaves a sour taste when I have effectively won 30+30+14+7 = 81 (or 51 without the Gammon doubling) against 0+0+15+15 = 30.
The game ended 2-2 with me having removed 21 more stones. Surely that should decide the winner. It is like goal difference in a drawn league. I do not understand why the TPR, gained playing others, has any bearing on our match...but hey...who said life was fair.
Thank you for explaining this peculiarity, which converts an overall loss into a win.
On the whole what a great site. Applause
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this was a backgammon site solely you are absolutely right. But this is not, this is a board gaming site where we keep tournament rules and rating formulas the same for all games. So a win is a win and by how much does not count for tournaments.
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Croscombe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:12    Post subject: Thank you Bram Reply with quote

As reassuring as it is to have you confirm I am absolutely right, I would rather have the chance to win or be beaten legitimately.
Could you either reduce or extend the number of games to 3 or 5 so that a clear victory is possible? The TPR should only be used to determine who starts the deciding game. The TPR would then be redundunt after giving that advantage to the slightly more successful of the two players.
The current system that allows overall losers to win drawn games is clearly flawed.
Could anyone else reading this leave a comment expressing their preference? Thank you.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 15:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with this suggestion to have 3 or 5 games.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 21:28    Post subject: suggestion Reply with quote

I also agree with the suggestion for 3-5 games. It's just the logical choice....
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bramOffline
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

no.. Same reason: this site has a lot more games and most have an advantage per color and quite a lot a substantial one. That means unequal matches are in the advantage of 1 player.

I understand you think it is a solution, but it is a very bad one. So this will never happen.
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Croscombe
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 18:23    Post subject: Faulty logic Bram! Reply with quote

The current TPR system gives a 66% advantage to the player with the greater TPR. Of the 3 possible outcomes they will be victorious in two, by winning or drawing (sadly this includes Backgammon draws they have technically lost) and is the very bad option.
A 5 game series would confer an advantage of 20% of the whole, and make them play to win legitimately.
You may have made a decision, but facts are facts and losers win using the TPR system.
As I said before this is an excellent site and well done, but I am not alone in knowing this TPR advantage is wrong.
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bramOffline
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 15:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am closing this. Comparing statistics in this way has no use at all. You clearly do not understand it.

I try one more time:
- TPR is only deciding when 2 players end up equal so are of about equal strength. It does not give 66% advantage. If 2 players are of the same strenght, game ends in 2-2 and we decide based on TPR, what player has done relatively better in this tournament. And yes then 100% chance of going to the next round if your TPR is better! Pretty fair we think!
- If you do a 5 game match with 2 players of about equal strength, then the player that starts with the color that has an start advantage and in case of strong players 100% will win that round. Not so fair we think.

Those are the facts. But no more discussion, it will not change!
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